Forgive me, but I think this project is doomed.
Hello,
I became a member of this community nearly a year ago. I wanted to use my programming skills for the public good. After finding that there was little data that was of use to me, I gave up visiting this site. Nearly a year on, it's still going nowhere. The forum should be huge by now. It isn't. The list of data-sets is pathetic.
I can only describe it as "Yes Minister." data. Harmless. Unlikely to generate controversy.
Unless access is given to the raw data, this quest for knowledge is doomed.
I will log in again in a year with the hope there may be progress.
Regards, Peter.
Would be nice to have more activity and content available - while we can create our own topics and talk about our own subjects, having data shown and being readily available via the forum, perhaps through moderators or admins would be highly desirable.
One year after the Labour government launched the data.gov.uk portal, intended to provide a front door to a library of government data, there is disquiet that the initial enthusiasm has worn off and that civil servants are quietly blocking widespread release of useful information.
karan chanan - Danial
I would say that it is still very early days. Data publishing is very new to most public sector organisations, defined as the publishing of 'raw data in a machine readable format'. Even the concept of metadata is new to some, as very evident. Let's hope for more progress over the next 12 months - better data management within the data publisher organisations and improved publishing capabilities.
Tim
"...improved publishing capabilities..."
I disagree.
All that is required are copies of the ORIGINAL data files together with corresponding data dictionaries.
Leave it to us to convert that data into a more useful form. Let the civil servants continue to provide value for money.
Peter.
I think part of the reason that they aren't asked is that people will assume they'll take 8 weeks to provide it, and so it's useless for many applications, such as research for a new business idea etc... if it were already there then it would be used. "Build it, and they'll come" I think is the quote...
Is this a catch-22? The public do not ask for (raw) data hence departments don't publish; the public don't know what (raw) data exists and so can't ask; dpeartments are not asked hence they won't publish - no demand!
For many applications it really is a lot more than just getting the raw data. It needs to be in a form where it can be linked to other data. For instance, mapping and geographical information systems need links based on coordinates, National Grid References or postcodes (too coarse for many applications). Whilst those links can be created by programmers it may be just too much work to make the app worthwhile.
Our bi-monthly GIS Professional will be dealing with just this issue in a two-parter beginning with the February issue (www.gisprofessional.co.uk).
Regards,
Stephen Booth
I have just found the COINS data.
Fabulous!
I am going to see what I can do with it.
Peter.
I've just grabbed the very same data..
Hopefully it'll make for an interesting read!
Paul
Correct me if I am wrong but don't government departments shred the majority of their Data after a 5 year interim? As to lists of Data Sets I have to agree that in terms of growth this site has hardly florished into a thriving community.
Provided to us the developers:
easy to find;
easy to license; and
easy to re-use.
Not so easy to find once it went through a confidential waste shredding and recycling plant though eh?
Data, data, data! I cannot make bricks without clay!
That's just silly. The datasets listed on this site are held electronically. Normally datasets produced by Government departments are retained indefinitely, although older data may be archived on different internal systems than newer data.
All companies are subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Act and must demonstrate that they have taken steps to protect personal information - both paper and computer records - from the moment it is obtained until its final destruction. Failure to do so can result in fines and prosecution. It must comply with all current waste and DPA legislation. Not only do you have a duty of care to ensure that this confidential waste is securely stored and disposed of, under the Data Protection Act (1998) every business is legally bound to ensure that personal data is handled in a responsible manner.
I used to work for the shredding company, your saying they do not shred the Data, but I know full well they do shred the Data. If your so assured they do not then why don't you try and pull up Data from 10 years ago that was not committed to computer archive.
The Data Protection Act is legislation governing the protection of personal data.
The datasets listed on data.gov.uk are not personal data; please see the FAQ.
There are quite a few datasets listed on data.gov.uk that go back more than ten years. For example this one: Central Government carbon footprint, 1990 to 2008.
Danny
Owen is right in his repsonse. You are talking about personal data, which would never be made available as Open Data in identifiable form, and also probably paper registered files.
Traditionally, paper files got shredded after five years unless someone made a case for their retention. The main reason is obvious - sheer physical space - but if you kept everything in that environment, chance are you would be able to find nothing. In theory, anything useful should have been retained, but given that reviewing archived files is time consuming (not to mention dusty) I would not be surprised if some paper got shredded that should not have been.
The world started to change as e-mail and electronic storage became the norm. These days, the majority of documents probably only exist electronically. For a good few years, this played havoc with government records, because printing and filing paper copies tended to be low priority (and the filing clerks who would have got the job done were a thing of the past). Records deteriorated into a mish mash of registered files, electronic stores and personal folders in your desk drawer. This was chaotic, and, while mit took them far too long to do so, government departments had to tackle this, not least to be able to answer FOI questions.
These days, nearly all files are electronic too, so filing is easy, as long as the software is sufficiently user-friendly. It would be naive to suppose that it always happens, particularly if the main job is taking all your time. I am also aware that departments tend to delete e-mails in their staff's accounts after (say) a year, so anything unfiled at that point can just disappear). I believe that there are still long term retention guidelines; that is, electronic files may be discarded after five years or so, but this is now more to do with getting rid of most of the chaff that hides the wheat rather than because of (electronic) space restrictions. However, I would have thought that the easy option now was to say "retain", because it is so easy to pull up the file contents (or at least say you have!) rather than destroy (as the physical file had to come back from some distant old warehouse).
None of this direcly affects the availability of (non-personal and non-confidential) data, except in the sense that much more detail can be retained and made available in electronic form than in paper days (when probably only the end-result processed data would be available). But I have a feeling that it is relevant to the metadata which help explain how the older processed data were obtained and processed. Some of these metadata may well have met their maker.
I've described the real world of information handling as I recall it, rather than the theory of what should have happened. Information management can go out of the window when under great pressure, and it would be unrealistic to suppose otherwise. It is now given considerably greater priority by senior management than (say) fifteen years ago, but a cynic would observe that senior management tends to forget the time it takes to do it properly when assigning resources! "I want the paper today" - OK, but if you always want that, when do you expect me to file it?
Data, data, data! I cannot make bricks without clay!
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